professional books · Q & A · revision

Revision Decisions Blog Tour: A Q&A with Anderson and Dean

Stacey Shubitz

Revision needs to have a sense that a window of possibility is still open to allow another draft in (17).

–Jeff Anderson and Deborah Dean

Last month, I conferred with a fifth grade writer who drafted a “personal narrative” that read more like an informational piece.  He was supposed to be crafting a personal narrative, but it was clear didn’t know what made something story-like. Once he realized he hadn’t written in the genre his teacher assigned, we talked about what makes something a narrative.  I used a mentor text that showed clear story parts and talked about it having a problem and a solution.  Then, I asked him to use some of what he had already written when to revise his writing in the genre his teacher assigned (using a storytelling voice).  He looked at me as if I was giving him the choice to choose between cutting off his arm or cutting off his leg.  He was so wedded to what he had written that he couldn’t imagine it being revised.  I touched-base with his teacher after our conference and discovered revision wasn’t something that was really being taught in the classroom.  As a result, I encouraged her to do some revision work with the entire class so revision, which most writers find challenging, wouldn’t feel so scary.

Leave a comment on this blog post for a chance to win a copy of Revision Decisions.
Leave a comment on this blog post for a chance to win a copy of Revision Decisions.

Jeff Anderson and Deborah Dean have a new book that deals with revision in grades 4 – 10.  Revision Decisions: Talking Through Sentences and Beyond is a professional book that will help students realize that reseeing, reformulating, redesigning, rethinking, recasting, reshaping, and retweaking isn’t so scary.  In fact it can be fun!  (Yes, I wrote FUN!)

Writing is messy.  As teachers we need to provide our students with opportunities to see our struggles as writers.  When students see us revise (i.e., rewriting, throwing out chunks of text, adding new parts), they’ll come to understand that revision is a natural part of the writing process.

Great writing usually doesn’t pour out in first drafts.  All writers need time and space to revise sentences, paragraphs, or whole pieces of writing multiple times to get it right.

As teachers, we orchestrate situations that cause talk and problem solving. We create an environment where tussling and playing with words is routine rather than rare. Through interaction and conversation, we create flexible writers who can easily teach with today’s changing writing landscape and can also be imprinted with unchangeable truths about writing and how we compose (4).

I had a bunch of questions for Jeff and Deborah.  I hope their responses get you excited about their book, which is a must-have if you’d like to help your students become more adept revisers.

Q:  Tell me a bit about how you got the idea for Revision Decisions.

A:  We were both interested in the 2007 Writing Next report, particularly the findings on the importance and success of sentence combining. We both had interest in grammar, which made that section of particular interest. We ran into each other at different conferences and started talking about the idea of a book. It grew from talk and emails. The idea of play and risk and talk took shape. We had a lot of metaphors for play at first and had an initial title of Combining Conversations. The book—as books will do—evolved, but it started with common interest.

Q:  What is the biggest thing you want teachers to take away from your new book?

We hope teachers will take away the big idea that writing and revision require an abundance of talk and lots of trying out of/playing with ideas. The skills associated with writing take time to develop, but giving students lots of practice where it’s okay to take risks and make mistakes and find success is essential to that growth through time.

A:  Some teachers are hesitant to provide as much student-talk and discussion time as you call for in Revision Decisions. What would you say to convince them of the importance of ample time for children & young adults to work together and talk about the revision process?

We need to consider that students may not be aware of how the words they write actually sound. By talking out our revision attempts, we build the sense of sound that is essential to effective writing. In addition, we provide an intentional structure so that purposeful talk and the magic happen. Short spurts of talk start before longer ones do. Facilitating talk is an investment that pays off.

Q:  On that same line of thinking, how can you help teachers create classrooms full of students who are capable of doing this high-level revision work in collaboration with each other?

A:  The lessons in Revision Decisions progress in such a way that students experience revision moves thorough demonstration, guided practice in groups and pairs, and then finally they apply the skills to their own writing. We were intentional about structuring the lessons so that students have support and structures and language for successful classroom talk and application so that they will be ready to work independently. One issue we saw with earlier sentence combining books is that this gradual release wasn’t always addressed.

Click on the image to enlarge.
Click on the image to enlarge.

Q:  Why is the DRAFT acronyms so powerful?

A:  DRAFT is easy to remember and it applies at multiple levels—it’s about the concrete things revisers do.  Each letter gives writers a discrete action or option they have to make writing better. And in both large and small situations they apply. Before a writer can delete paragraphs and move around larger sections of writing they have to know those acts, and DRAFT gives teachers manageable chunks to teach. In the end, they all the options start to blend together, but first we have to know our discrete options.

Q:  Would you explain how Revision Decisions helps teachers move students towards the grade level standards set forth by the Common Core?

A:  The CC in elementary levels actually asks students to combine sentences, but in general we are working with creating effective sentences—and that’s a part of the CC for all levels. Depending on the grade level, teachers can use and model lessons that apply to standards appropriate for the grade level they teach. We have worked with elementary teachers, grades 2-6. The grade two teachers were using a simplified version from the book—combining only two sentences. But we talked about what their students needed—to use commas with intro elements. We found some sentences to combine that specifically allowed teachers to give students practice with that comma work in authentic ways. The same thing applies at other grade levels: teachers can adapt and select to meet their students’ needs and the CC standards for their grade level.

Q:  Talk about the work of de-combining. How do you create examples for kids like the ones we see on the practice pages in the appendix (e.g., pgs 142, 145, 146)?

A:  This is the most fun, almost like a puzzle. And upper elementary, middle school, and high school students also find it fun. The secret is to see how many basic ideas are really embedded in a single sentence and then give each one its own sentence. Students take a sentence apart to its most basic elements and ideas. And they took pride in finding and creating more kernel sentences than we could. The key is seeing what the sentence is saying—and that’s why it’s such good work for students to do, too. De-combining aids both comprehension and composition.

Q:  You talked about the application of this work on pages 54-55.  Can you say more about how long teachers can expect it to take upper elementary students, middle schoolers, & high schoolers to apply this work to their own reading and writing lives?

A:  The thing we love about application is that this work applies to all levels—and can be adapted for the needs of students. We can choose more involved sentences or simpler ones. We can choose sentences that give general practice with sentence fluency or we can find sentences that have the potential to teach our students a specific construction, such as appositives. We have examples of that in the book. And the more adept students become with these practices, the more they will apply them to their writing.

This is a gradual process. It will take time. That’s one thing we have to remember about many effective instructional practices: they take time to work. I think of peer feedback—it takes time for the full effects to be seen. We don’t give up because the first time we ask students to give feedback they aren’t very good at it. Instead, we keep at it. That’s how we see this work. It is cumulative, and the kind of talk students need to develop takes time. Eventually, the kind of talk seems natural, and the structures we have practiced start to show up spontaneously or in first drafts.

Q:  What one change can teachers make that will move their students towards more purposeful revision?

A:  Encouraging students to make more than one try and then talking out the two (or more) versions to feel the effects. Like talk, revision can be and often should be generative. This teaches students from the inside out to consider more than their first attempt and to talk things out.

Q:  What is next for you as both writers and educators?

A:  We are looking forward to presenting about Revision Decisions together.

  • Debbie: I have had an interest in nonfiction for a long time. I have a couple of projects I’m just beginning with that interest. One deals with helping teachers engage students in more varied and interesting (and authentic) nonfiction writing. The other is actually where I’m trying my hand at my own informational writing.
  • Jeff: I am excited to be traveling around the US and even New Zealand this spring, talking about Revision Decisions. I am putting the finishing touches on my first middle grade novel, tentatively titled, Luke Veracruz and the Chocolate Emergency (Sterling, Fall 2015). I am also in the beginning stages of taking my invitational grammar work to grades 1-5 in a book with the working title of Patterns of Power.

 Thanks for having us your show.  😉

 

GIVEAWAY INFORMATION:

  • This giveaway is for a copy of Revision Decisions: Talking Through Sentences and Beyond. Many thanks to Stenhouse Publishers for donating a copy for one reader.
  • For a chance to win this copy of Revision Decisions, please leave a comment about this post by Monday, November 17th at 11:59 p.m. Eastern Time. I’ll use a random number generator to pick the winners, whose names I will announce at the bottom of this post, by Tuesday, November 18th.
  • Please be sure to leave a valid e-mail address when you post your comment, so I can contact you to obtain your mailing address if you win.  From there, my contact at Stenhouse will ship your book out to you.  (NOTE: Your e-mail address will not be published online if you leave it in the e-mail field only.)

Comments are now closed.

Thank you to everyone who left a comment about Revision Decisions.  I used a random number generator and Susie’s commenter number was selected.  Here’s what she wrote:

I love the DRAFT acronym. That, alone, makes me want to dig into this book. Last year, Main St. in the little town where I taught was in the process of a huge makeover. I spent a lunch period outside taking pictures of the construction. Then we were able to use it as an analogy all year. “Revision is like Main St. It was fine and functioning before, but people had a vision for how it could be better. So,right now it’s really messy. There’s dirt and cones and torn up sidewalks, and blocked lanes. But, we can start to see how it’s going to get better, with tree parks in the center, bigger sidewalks, etc. ” it was right outside our window….a “concrete” image of revision.

Published by Stacey Shubitz

I am a literacy consultant who focuses on writing workshop. I've been working with K-6 teachers and students since 2009. Prior to that, I was a fourth and fifth-grade teacher in New York City and Rhode Island. I'm the author of Craft Moves (Stenhouse Publishers, 2016) and the co-author of Jump Into Writing (Zaner-Bloser, 2021), Welcome to Writing Workshop (Stenhouse Publishers, 2019), and Day By Day (Stenhouse, 2010). I live in Central Pennsylvania with my husband and children. In my free time, I enjoy swimming, doing Pilates, cooking, baking, making ice cream, and reading novels.

73 thoughts on “Revision Decisions Blog Tour: A Q&A with Anderson and Dean”

  1. Revision is always the biggest challenge…both for writers and for teachers. Once you’ve gotten the writers producing, having them go back and ‘re-vision’ their piece is so tough; plus, knowing where to start! Thanks for tackling this topic so we can develop independence for students in this area.

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  2. Definitely going to use DRAFT this week with my seventh graders! Would love to get my hands on this book to try out other revision strategies!

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  3. I am so excited about this book. I heard Jeff talk about it last May when I saw him at Judson University. I intend to share this book with my junior high language arts teachers since I am an instructional coach for our district. We use his other two books (Mechanically Inclined and Everyday Editing) as our anchor texts. It will fit in nicely with our with our Writing Workshop model. I’m wondering if the lessons in the book are mini-lessons. The part I am most excited about is the talk aspect. I tweeted about it too!

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  6. We’ve been using a similar process with the acronym ARMS (Add, Remove, Move, Substitute) but it sounds like this book has a lot of great ideas I could add to our process!

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  7. I am a writing coach and just gave myself a new project to research revision strategies that get kids excited about revising to share with my staff. I’m so glad to have found this book!

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  11. Yes! Yes! Yes! The sound of language IS essential to effective writing and rewriting. Our students need to see that revision involves playing around with language, “trying it” many different ways. Thank you for this interview. I look forward to reading the book!

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  14. I love the emphasis on talk–the comprehension link we often gloss over or skip completely. Great reminder that talk belongs in every part of our day. Can’t wait to read this book!

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  15. This book and its format seems simple enough even for my English Language Learners who find revision really difficult. The book is now on my wish list!

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  23. I love the idea of the acronym. A lot of students feel like a first draft is the only draft they have to do. And Debbie Dean does a lot of great books—can’t wait to read this one!

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  27. At this age or grade level students so easily confuse writing genres, any tool to help them distinguish modes of writing and particular structures is welcome

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  29. I would love to learn more from Jeff Anderson. Had the pleasure of meeting him a few years ago & use the ideas from that session & his other books often.

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  36. As a math teacher who is also teaching Language Arts for the first time in 13 years, I feel like I am behind because my students are still writing their first pieces (Personal Narratives and Memoirs) but you have confirmed that we’re okay! Thanks for making me feel better – I need this book!

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  37. Thank you for the preview of the DRAFT form. Revision is a daunting task for writers, but necessary. The DRAFT form makes revision more manageable to teach. Looking forward to getting this new book. Peggy

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  41. Thank you for this post. I’ve had this book sitting in my shopping cart waiting with baited breathe for its release. I appreciate the sneak peak of the DRAFT. It looks like a perfect tool for my sixth grade “reluctant revisers.”

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    1. I worked with some 2nd and 3rd grade teachers a few weeks ago. They found ways to adapt the revision strategies for their young writers and thought their students would really enjoy the practices. It’s very do-able!

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  45. I love the DRAFT acronym for upper elementary. I am working with K-3 right now and this has my mind spinning on how to incorporate it in the lower grades so they are more comfortable with revision in the remainder of their academic careers.

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  50. I have this book in my Amazon shopping cart! I would love to win it. I saw Jeff Anderson last week at the Literacy for All conference in Providence. He was the stand out speaker for me. I want to learn more!

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  53. I love the DRAFT acronym. That, alone, makes me want to dig into this book. Last year, Main St. in the little town where I taught was in the process of a huge makeover. I spent a lunch period outside taking pictures of the construction. Then we were able to use it as an analogy all year. “Revision is like Main St. It was fine and functioning before, but people had a vision for how it could be better. So,right now it’s really messy. There’s dirt and cones and torn up sidewalks, and blocked lanes. But, we can start to see how it’s going to get better, with tree parks in the center, bigger sidewalks, etc. ” it was right outside our window….a “concrete” image of revision.

    Like

    1. I’m so glad they emphasize the importance of talk in writing. Too often talk is pushed aside so students can get writing, then they don’t know what to write. I love all of Jeff Anderson’s book!

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  54. We are using the Calkins Units if Study for the first time this year and my students groan every time they were asked to redraft, even when they were now writing for a new purpose or with a new lens. Now that they are composing their final piece, I am finding they need more guidance or assistance in revising as they have taken it to mean check for capitalization.

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  55. Thanks for letting me know about this new revision book!! Fingers cross that you pick my name but if not, I’ll be contacting Stenhouse!

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